Rightfully so, I am
reading a lot about my fellow Moroccan's disenchantment with Royal Air Maroc
(RAM) customer service and RAM service in general. What I want to say here is
that the disregard of RAM towards its customers is a symptom of a morbid Moroccan
society as a whole. It's just happened that la RAM is probably the Moroccan
service that we have to interact with the most since it is our logistical link
to our home land. The bulk of our social and human interactions happen here in
the USA, far from what our compatriots have to deal with on daily basis
back home. Often times, once in Morocco for pleasure, people either are oblivious to the ailments of the
society, have minimal interaction within the society or simply don't care to
know so not to ruin their vacations, that is if they can help it.
While RAM
is a complete Disgrace, hundreds if not thousands of other services and other
companies in Morocco are just as mediocre. For instance, administrations, corrupted
justice systems, hospitals even private clinics (by the way, the state of
health care services in Morocco is so despicable, I hope and pray for you my
dear friends to never ever have to deal with it), from bringing in your own
sheets pillow and blankets, sterile or not who cares, to negotiating how much
care you can get from your salaried nurse to buying your own surgical supplies,
to keeping dead people hostage in private clinics until the hospital bill gets
paid. Banks, hotels, car rental companies etc... I can go on and on.
There was not one
time that I went to Morocco and I wasn't troubled with
some kind of substandard service. I attribute that largely to the lack of
civility and competence. There is a large segment of the population, even
highly educated people that have zero notion of civility. This lack of civility
is the result of a long deteriorating longitudinal social interactions and a
long standing abusive and repressive vertical influences, as well as a lack of
role models in the society. It is the result of people being chronically
deprived of their dignity and their basic human necessities. It is the result
of stripping young potentials from the ability to compete for good jobs because
of favoritism and nepotism, therefore perpetuating misery and poverty. Civility
is acquired and reinforced through preserved cultural richness, moral awareness
and an ever evolving emotional intelligence. The former two are becoming
increasingly scarce, the latter probably never existed. For some reason, people
are growing increasingly unhappy and disgruntled which translates into a lack
of respect to one another, hence the poor quality of customer service and a
complete disregard to each others needs. Subsequently the people's well being
is disturbed and there start the vicious cycle of resentment, hate, action and
counter action.
I very much enjoyed your article sir. In fact, I thought you hit some points very hard and eloquently too, I might say. however, you did commit some mistakes that you accuse most others of doing "I am not being critical just for the fun of it, by the way", it is the fact that on your way to your office to write this very beautiful article, somehow the paper where you should laid some blame on the biggest villain of all "the almighty Moroccan government", seemed to have been misplaced. Thank you for reading
nlazar : Dear Majid
Other airlines spend money on trainning their staff how to behave like service priders, but RAM forgot about the fundamental etiquette of customer service. I believe they don't have to because the customer (Moroccan) does not seem to mind it.
If you travel a lot to Morocco and unless you are willing to pretend that you are in a cargo plane without any staff, my advice is go through Europe. It's pleasant, cheaper, and more secure.
Hopefully the message will register with RAM executives to shift their startegy.
Cheers
NJ
ahmed in la : Dear doc,
Do not scare me; I'm getting ready to get the hell out of the U.S. and actively planning my migratory return to the land of my birth.
Sorry if you are feeling the way you do and if others feel your pains. The last time I checked, there were no flights to Utopia.
Do with what you have to deal with in the U.S., bad and good or deal with with what you encounter in Morocco, bad and good.
Allay yehdi makhle9.
abeacc : Dr. Sabour,
I am impressed! You have really gotten your moneys worth from that thesaurus. What is really striking is your underhanded and opportunistic use of sub-standard customer service to rant on the Moroccan society as a whole. Your morbid blanket description is appalling and shameful! There are plenty of decent, hard working men and women who live by high moral and spiritual standards you are simply too quick to dismiss.
We live in a market economy and you should be the first to know that the mighty dollar speaks loud and clear. There is plenty of competition and you can take your money and spend it elsewhere. If the service was that bad, dont you think the business would have failed by now!? Please, do not give me the same lame excuses about time saving or convenience. Going through Europe is just as easy! Heck, make a day of it! It is your chance to rub elbows with the friendly and civil European elite.
Speaking of civility from a metaphorical concept is ludicrous! Longitudinal social interactions Are you kidding me? Please get down from your ivory tower and mingle with us, the common Moroccan folks. You might learn a thing or two! Moroccans in general, are friendly, polite and helpful. Obviously, there are always exceptions but a few rotten apples do not represent an entire society.
It is worth noting that customer service is lousy in some industries because the concepts in certain business models have not yet matured. The Moroccan economy is in no mans land at the moment. Many sectors are governed by rudimentary principles of supply and demand. Customer service is at the bottom of the totem pole and it will be sometime before it gains some importance. Any first year business student can school you on this topic so I will just move on!
I urge Wafin readers to take the time and objectively reflect on our society. Get re-acquainted with our roots! Our heritage and long illustrious history goes beyond the negative youtube videos and sporadic dealings during short summer vacations. Please don't forget to voice your opinion because it matters!
A.H. from Boston
ktstransport : Dear Doctor Sabour.
First I thank you so much for studding so hard so you can obtain the highest level of education so you can be well spoken.
To be honest, the problem is not within the Moroccan society, but the problem is how you see things now!
Morocco and Moroccans are made for each other, the system, the way of life is normal in Morocco, if you live there and you did not know better, you will never write an article complaining about one of the biggest transportation company. Some other Moroccans are just happy we do have one airliner available and we are not like some other countries in Africa that have to take 3 or 4 flight to get back home.
Every society has the good and the bad, do you really thing that the USA, Germany or Japan are perfect?
First if we want to change our system, we need to help the system, not by complaining about it, without any solution, you know very well that we Moroccans are very stubborn people do you really thinK that by you writing an article will change things?? NO. NO
Sorry but educated people like you needs to come up with solutions not complains,
Example: Our system is like that because we are the system, we are the prime minister, we are the Doctor, the thief, the homeless the rich and the poor, we need to cure the people not the system, and sorry we need a lot more than writing articles in Wafin website, lot more hard work DOCTOR.
adc1259 : All valid points. but, I am getting the hell out of the states too. Sad that Morocco is still suffering from the effects of "les annees de plomb" era. It will take years if not decades to see progress though some improvements are made. But no place is perfect and I am opting for the Blad.
Good luck to all and whatever path you choose as long as you are happy either here in the USA or Maroc.
Driss.
Cervantes : Mr. Saboura or should I say Dr.Saboura,
Whats with all the negativity Man?!
If you claim to be an MD you should act like one. As a physician you are to bring peace and tranquility to people, but instead you just made me so stressed and ill spirited with all the negativity coming out of your message. Are you just angry because you did not have a good time during your vacation in Morocco? Dont worry, we all have experienced that-its pretty common. It does not give you the right though to bring a whole nation down to the pits just because you are not pleased with the way your vacation went. I know you spent a lot of money and you want some things to show for it, but instead you ended up with a full head of other peoples problems, not much rest and perhaps several thousands of dollars short.
Heres an advice for you. DONT GO TO MOROCCO FOR VACATION!! Go to Morocco to visit your family-if you still have any there. Make a special time for that. For vacation, go to other vacation location (Hawaii, New Zealand, Fiji) among many other destinations for rest and relaxation. Go there, spend a little money have a great time, meet new people, eat new food and enjoy. Do you understand?!
You and the likes of you always blla blla blla about Morocco as if it were the worst place on earth. Morocco is great for what you want to use it for. Just like any other place on earth.
BE GOOD Dr. SABOURA!!
Wafin a HNIPEZ?!
A khai a khai ara shi garo!!
nadiacal : salam,
Great article, frankly I really appreciate people who says the truth about Morocco,
For Ahmed L.A my parents are living in Belgium for 45 years they are retired now but the go to Morocco the can't stay more than 2 months and I think that you will do the same it's almost the same for everyone here,
safyorker : Mr Jayborji, i am not sure I understand what you meant. I didn't accuse anybody of doing anything. the passage "Abusive and repressive vertical influences" in my post refers to the "Almighty Moroccan Government". I probably should have used the word oppressive rather than repressive.
Dear Ahmed from LA. If what I said has surprised you or scared you as it appears, I respectfully suggest you have a plan B. The reality of things might turn out quiet shocking. I am sure this is no news to you. Of course it is not all doom and gloom. You can always lead a quaint life parallel to that of the rest of the people and take the first flight back to JFK if need be. Just remember if you ever decide to cross the street one day, don't assume that it is safe to cross just because the traffic light is red, or when you take a taxi cab make sure to ask if they stop at the stop sign. Because god forbid something happened, there is no ER as you have come to know it in most of the country. If you are immune to things like this, I am sure you 'll do just fine. Good luck my friend. I am still waiting for the day when I will think about retiring to Morocco without having ants crawl up my back.
M. Sabour
wafin077 : Salam,
I just came back from a vacation from leblad too....And I agree there is still a lot and long way to go in order to improve the society and the menthality of our people....I had to change my morocccan ID in such short time, and guess what.....My brother asked me: Do you want to have your ID extended your way (Means my way) or my way (Means his way). I asked him what is the difference, he told me MAD100 ($15) that's all...Honestly, if you want to go home go see your family and not to get stressed out with the system.....VACATIONS CAN BE SPENT ELSEWHERE...And to conclude, for those who wants to go back and live in Morocco, I just want to warn them that they will lose their believes, unless you are wailing to let go and give RASHWA, Prioritize your family and close friends than others, Beg to get your rights...etc....then go and have a Moroccan life. Finally, I always say: Alhamdolillah li hazna min dik lablad.........Everyone wishes to go back and have a good life back home, but I don't see changes happening in our genration....May be in another 20-30 years!
Thank you all for reading.
HB.
abdelnyc : dear wafiners,
thank u doc for bringing this subject, they say that half of the solution is to understand the problem, the situatin in morocco now is a fruit of long years of minupilation and greed dating back since the independance, the elit or as we call them the fassis r the ones benefiting from the system. as the late king said once: starve your dog,he will follow you. they turned the people to starving dogs who will do anything and everything for a peice of meat, chasing the dream of fortune. everybody is a theif in morocco with no exception at all, everybody wanna get rich no matter how. and don't deny it people, unless you went through the daily life there you won't have any idea what l am talking about, everybody is trying to steal from u, from the moment u step down of that airplane. it's easy for u to say that no one is forcing u to go with RAM if u live in the east coast, but if u live in california and u r traveling with two kids the last thing u want is an other transfer. so we r forced to spare the quality of service for the sake of time. going through the customs that ask u for their share of candies or cigarettes, to the policeman that smiles to the rich who drive fancy cars even if they r over the spped limit and he chase a poor man with a motocycle for 20DH for not wearing a helmet. to the butcher who tries to sneack some peices of bones to ur order or rotten veggies. l am not gonna try to go through services in morocco because the situation speaks for itself. from public transportation to five stars hotels, Morocco is a country of contradictions, mosques everywhere next to bars and clubs, woman wearing hijab and yet don't mind to show the rest. people selling their kids for sex and l am not gonna say l heard this but l lived it and seen it, and if u stayed in morocco for more than three months u will know what l am talking about, but if u go there for few weeks, renting a car and enjoying ur spent dollors u won't see the truth. the situation as l said speaks for itself and it is reflected on the society, education, arts, sports... we r the worst among the countries, they r trying to fool us with the biggest club in africa, the tallest mmenara in the world, the biggest hotel in africa, the festivals and bringing silly singers to keep the country in the illusion of development. but what did they do for the people???? where r the universities?? where r the hospitals?? where r the people who at least can speak fluent english in the goverment?? nothing of this.. so to all those who r attacking the MD
alaouiy : Dear Mr.Sadour,
I would like to thank your honesty, applaud your courage to give us a well written article describing how some of us fell about RAM the only airline connecting Casablanca and New York City. There is a lot of truth in your statements and comments to the effect on how the Moroccan society and its government function.
Please allow me to take this opportunity to clarify and elaborate on some the points you made throughout your article. There are worth mentioning and explaining hoping that some critics of the truth could come to their senses.
A great number of the Moroccan community in the USA decided to travel via Europe for less expensive tickets and better customer service. Their love and loyalty to Morocco and RAM has not changed. They prefer to punish the company for its bad customer service, the monopoly it held on traffic between New York City and Casablanca and the higher air fair in comparison with other international airlines.
A person spends money or product of his/her hard work to receive a dissent customer services with a thank you and smile. Unfortunately it is not always the case with the RAM when travelers, Moroccans and others alike, can not retrieve their lost luggage, seats are sold and customer are forced to pay for another airfare and the list could go on and on.
The life in the USA gives us the opportunity to deny RAM the possibility to take our money and treat us like some type of second hand citizens with one to listen and to take our complains seriously. Remember, Customer is always wrong for the RAMs people. Is this fair to say? Sure it depends on who you talk to and how reality is perceived.
The Moroccan social, economic and political conditions do not justify the low level of customer service RAM provides its customer with. Its officers must hold accountable for their action, bad decision and bad management. Again, who had time for this and the alternative is economic sanctions. I spend my money else where to make a statement expressing my discontent with the company and its service and my return is awaiting real and solid improvement to travel worry free.
There it no doubts some other Moroccan see reality differently which is perfectly fine. Their Logic is sample. They are Moroccan therefore they should travel with a Moroccan airline to reflect a sense of attachment to the mother land. Loyalty is not always to the best policy. Status quo is not acceptable and though love is sometime the alternative to tell a company like RAM changes and true improvements are must. If the RAM remains unchallenged things will never change.
It is common that citizens in Morocco are forced to look the other ways and accept the reality good or bad as it may be. Every Moroccan in USA had the prefect chance to remove the tape of their mouths, unchain their hands and give their wallets an economic power to confront wrong doing in any kind. Soon or later, the companys profit would decline to force RAM executive to seat down behind close doors and look for creative ways of improvement as a way to attract travelers from Morocco and else where.
The reality on the ground a great numbers of the Moroccan community in the USA are from Casablanca and RAM represents a convenient ways to travels to the mother land. At the same time those with relatives in others big cities and small villages travelling with RAM is not convenient. They have to wait long hours for a connection fly before tasking other means of transportation to their final destination.
Certainly, RAM has some type of annual profit therefore the possibility to invest on its workforce with seminars and periodic training to teach new techniques and methods to improve customer service at its tickets offices, at the airports and inside the aircrafts. The argument that peoples backgrounds and cultures is an obstacle for good customer service is not acceptable. The company and it high raking officers must raise the standards and set the example for others to follow. The condition could very sample. A new come to the company must embrace all set fort standards and be over with a ghetto mentality to be part of a professional environment where people are hold accountable for any wrong doing especially if customer service is compromised.
Certainly, social, economic and political conditions in Morocco are far to be good and favorable for its citizens and the reason behind our decision to immigrate to the USA a life time opportunity to improve the life style for our children, spouses, relatives and ourselves as contribution for improvement on many levels in anything that affect our lives daily. The RAM is only one aspect of the whole picture.
The invitation is always open for anyone to express his/her opinion and life experience to enjoy an open dialogue to better our community and ourselves. Keep in mind; it must be under the spirit of honesty, courage and certainly mutual respect. Living in the USA is an opportunity greater than live and we. Let keep it going. Thank you all.
karimbouc : I think the article is a bit too severe. One needs to remember that Morocco is a developing country. The writer describes some realities that are all too common to developing countries in general.
We all have two choices, either criticize, cry and complain, or be a bit more understanding of the realities and try to affect them in a positive manner. This is not to say accept them.
In the case of RAM, let us let the simple laws of offer and demand run their course. Simple economics.
As to the Moroccan society, like everywhere else, there is the good, the bad, and the ugly.
Karim
nlazar : I am sorry some feel insulted by the constructive criticism of the author for speaking his mind. It seems to me that we either observe this mediocrity and look the other way in which case we would not be serving well our beloved Morocco or speak the truth which is sometime hard to handle but with courage things should change for the better.
We love our Kingdom and we wish and hope it gets better for all of us and our families, but no one can tell me that if we do not get rid of corruption, establish a sincere accountability system, and give a chance to qualified yet not too connected people a chance, somehow our country will get better ?? Come on !!!
Cheers
NJ
mike1172 : Thanks DR you did say the truth and nothing but the truth about Morocco our home land.
the moroccanS ABROAD SHOULD CONTACT THE MINESTER OF TRANSPORT , the minester of health and share with them what they saw when they visited Morocco. let all send them certified letters and let them know that things does not improve we are not coming to morocco , we are not sending our children there. Ram personnel in jfk are harrassing customers in jfk , the manager is being there for almost 20 years and still does not want to lear and teach his employees customer satisfaction, he is there because he knows some people in the governement and when they come to jfk they get vip escort , they dont pay for excess weight , and customers who pay the bill get treated like second class citizen. as jfk said dont ask what your country can do for you ask what you can do for your country , if we dont get together and sign petitions and contact member or parlement, ministers and all the nine yard , nothing will change.
DrSabour : All right, take a deep breath my friends and calm down please.
Mr .Cervantes or should I call you Mr. Sherlock Holmes. Malek a sahbi ? 3ayet 3la Hnipez w gless tchreb shi kass datai, al Garro hahuwa moujoud. First of all, do me a favor and get rid of that crystal ball you have. I dont think it s working very well. Second, I want to sincerely apologize for stressing you out. I also want to sincerely apologize to everyone else who felt offended by this article. By no mean I intended to irk you my friends or to make enemies. I just wish you guys had put some names under your comments so I can address you accordingly, especially if you are going to subject me to maltreatment and denigration. I am sure that every one of you knows far well that what I said is no fantasy. As painful as it is, it is a naked truth and a raw reality. And by the way, I am not sitting on an ivory tower as some have suggested. I am sitting on a pile of dirty laundry that has been sitting in my closet for way too long. It is making me so sick; I had to put it out. I am sorry if I extended the line to your backyards and you had to smell the stench of it.
Some of you have suggested that I am just complaining. Well, I am not complaining. I often ask myself why our society is the way it is. Why are there so many things wrong? Why are there so many bad apples (not just a few, I beg to differ)? As a physician, I learned that in order to cure a disease I need to learn its mechanism, it pathogenesis. I am just trying to understand the mechanism of illness of our society so we can help to fix it. You cant fix something if you dont know how it developed in the first place.
I undeniably agree with the respected Gentlemen A.H. from Boston. (By the way brother, the Thesaurus is free on line, I didnt have to use though). There are plenty of decent, hard working men and women who live by high moral and spiritual standards, I am not simply too quick to dismiss them, lots of them are my friends and my family. Whether a body has one sick organ or too many sick organs, whether it has a simple illness or a serious and complex one, whether a body has an abscess of the brain or an infected appendix it is still a morbid body. If you dont address it quick enough, you will end up with an adverse outcome.
Take for example the vision 2010 with a plan to expand our hospitality industry. Investors (Kings, Sheikhs and Emirs and Co.) get free land to build their hotels and resorts, get an x amount of time of tax exemption, pad their deep pockets , get subsidized marketing by our ministry of tourism and leave the crumbs for the hard working laborers. I personally think a vision 2010 should have been to build descent schools and universities with up-to-date labs and equipment and with modern sports facilities for each school, at least one per 100 thousands population. To build modern state of the art tertiary medical centers, at least one per city. Invest aggressively in improving the living standard by combating the more than 50% illiteracy rate, by investing in the education and the formation of an army of social workers, by opening the window of opportunity to all segments of the population. Of course, a vision 2010 like this has no return on investment for the Kings, Sheikhs and Emirs, so why would they care. They care most about the market economy; they have a mighty dollar that speaks in megaphones, a mighty dollar that they didnt break one sweat to earn.
My dear friends, there is no room here for all my grievances, all what I wanted to do here is stir up an intelligent debate as to what is ailing with our society. We all know that there is something fundamentally wrong, so let snot stick our heads in the sand and pretend that everything is just as beautiful and exquisite as the ceilings of la Mamounia.
Again my friends I am deeply sorry if my article shook your conscience and hurt your feelings. I want to mention that I am not at all offended by your derogatory comments my friends. I understand I poured some salt on the wounds. To me that just means you are still alive and kicking.
PS: I will be opening a clinic soon in Westchester, New York, and will be offering free consultations to my fellow Moroccans who cant afford health care. I hope this will make up for the egos I just bruised. Thank you. I love you all and I love Morocco too.
Majid Sabour, MD (Mr. Saboura if that tickles your fancy, Mr. Servantes)
elmajed : Hi All,
I think Dr. Sabour here has opened a huge can of warms for those Moroccans who care about the regular guy/girl in our beloved country of Morocco. He is stating the facts about our society and if anyone is denying what he has said, that person is living in denial or may be is memebr of those who want our beloved to stay the way it's for his/her own benefits. The Dr. is a 100% right on his diagnosis of our society's problems. He is on the right side of the facts if we want to fix some of our social problems. He is saying it as it's, he has mentioned the Program of 2010's goals, that's a very good example to look into if we're really concerned about our country's efforts to improve our society from that side. I admired his courage and his statements regarding the lack of investments in Schools and universities. I don't know about you, but from my understanding the Moroccan government has no plan on improving or fixing our Moroccan Education System. Whenever I read or watch the Moroccan TV, there is no mention of any event taking place on building new universities.
For those who had chosen to attack the Dr. for stating the facts the way they are, should try and go live in Morocco for one year, if you have a family with small children and see what you'll encounter on a daily basis there. I know some of my friends who had chosen to do that and came back to the States more frustrated and more disapointed, for some they had to put their young kids through hell to play catching up on the American School system, because the Moroccan Education Sytem wasn't good enough for teaching their kids the necessary materials they need for their early education. First of all Moroccans don't value their kids education like they used to do. I have noticed that the level of Education had hit bottom in the last 20 years to say the least. Those preveliged Moroccans can afford to send their kids to an elite or "good" schools and "ATTABAGA ALKADIHA"'s kids can "Drop Dead" if you ask them.
I heard horror stories from some Moroccans who had moved back home and gave almost everything back home, from their business investments to their relationship with some members of their imediate family, they couldn't take it anymore and had decided to come back.
Finally for those who are second-geussing what the Dr. is stating here, should go and live in Morocco for one year(Not if you're a single and without a family) with a family and see what will happen to you and your family members. ALLAH AALEM!
ALLAH MAAK!
Thank you.
Elmajed.
rbenabde : I am flabbergasted by all the negative comments I read about RAM. The folks in this forum never produce any evidence or details about their bad experience, only vague complaints. I have flown with RAM for many many years and I honestly do not recall any terrible experience. Flying coach for 7-8 hours is uncomfortable regardless of the airline. I have also flown with Iberia, Northwest, Air France, Lufthansa (just to name a few) and RAMs customer service was not any different than the other airlines. The RAM crews were always professional and well behaved. I treated them with respect and they returned the favor. Delays were always within a reasonable time. (show me one airline that does not have delays). The meals were not any better or any worse than the meals I would get flying coach in any other airline. I never had to bribe anybody or argue with anyone. Checking in luggage at the JFK counter was never an issue. (Whether the clerks behind the counters were Moroccan or non-Moroccans). One difference I noticed: in RAM passengers still clap when the plane lands :)
Could it be that the many folks who had a bad experience flying RAM expected more from a Moroccan crew than they did from an Air France or Lufthansa crew? Could it be that they took 2-3 carrions inside the plane exceeding the 1 carryon limit per person? Could it be that they tried to check-in >70lbs luggage? Could it be that they demanded things or treated the crew in a way they would not like to be treated? Could it be that they tried to take seats that were not assigned to them? Could it be that they tried to get up when the seat belt light was on? Just asking some fair questions.
The flight attendant job is to conduct pre-flight cabin check, verify boarding pass, advise passengers of safety regulations, serve prepared meals and beverages and finally take action in the case of any emergencies. In most cases, unless you are an unaccompanied child, or a person with disability, or an elderly requiring special attention, there would be no need to constantly interact with the flight attendants.
I am only commenting out of fairness to RAM and based on my personal experience. Having said, there is always room for improvement and if you have specific suggestions, send them to their customer service office. Vague complaints for the sake of complaining do not advance anyone.
jamaal : Well royal air maroc is good for when your flying arab which means that a person muslim and arab or just muslim travels on airplane and all the scrutiny the person receives . Royal air maroc prices are too expensive they MUST come down and if everyone just simply STOP traveling with them then eventually they will lower their prices. I know it sounds bad to do this to other moroccans but why arent they considering the economy here in the west? and considering the pressure we have when we return to morocco(like bringing gifts etc) Nowadays I usually get a plane which has a few layovers and save a huge amount of money. It takes time but I'll get there.LoL
Cervantes : Dr. Saboura, (Yes, I think its cute to call you that) thank you for allowing me to tickle my fancy!
There is no need for an apology though. You poured your heart on what you believe should have been mentioned and we in turn responded as we see fit. The issue here is that we, those who disagree with you and in particular I, me ,and myself, are disappointed in the fact that one of our communitys top, such as Dr. Saboura, resorts to such negativity and useless writing to end up doing nothing more than vomiting his anger at us about our country. Heres a question for you Dr. Saboura-Do you think that we are that nave about what is happening in Morocco in terms of corruption, horrible healthcare, the second worst educational system in the universe and on and on and on. plus all those terrible things you mentioned? Well, in case you are not sure about the answer, we are not nave about those things. And NO, we are not putting our heads in the sand nor do we have our heads up our gluteus maximus. In fact, you might be surprised to learn that some of us are working really hard, day and night and making some really tough choices just so that one day, we can go back home to Morocco and potentially make a difference, be it in education, healthcare or by just being good exemplary citizens. And if for some reason we dont arrive to do so, we are implanting the love of our ancestors homeland in the heart of our kids, who although were born here in the USA, will still some day In shaa Llah think about being the better generation that will potentially help drive our country and the country of our forefathers through the rest of the century. So, No, I do not have a crystal ball, but I have a dream, I have a vision, and I have a plan that in shaa Llah will be put to practice to serve my people- the Moroccan people, regardless of who is governing them.
Dr.saboura, I am not sure where you have gotten your physician license from, but here in the states they taught us that our first objective is to prevent the disease, containment or treatment is second and finding the mechanism of the disease is for the biologist who do research in the lab. Unless you are a research clinician then you do not have the luxury to venture into such investigations. That aside, if I were as concerned about Morocco as you make yourself sound, then I would open a clinic in Morocco and help those who need help the most. Perhaps give free visits to everyone you believe is in need every Friday. The Moroccan folks here have plenty of back up from the US welfare system to take care of them. Also, I would find a way to start an organization or professional club if you will, within my community in Morocco and invite all the newly graduated MDs and try to establish some sort of journal club where these young physicians come and discuss the issues they encounter with patients and the system. I would encourage them to come up with new solutions and troubleshoot around the issues that are detrimental to our healthcare system. These, my dear fellow country man, are just a couple of examples of how one with your potential can contribute to the improvement of our native land. I am sure we can think of many and many more. But at the end of the day, we all have our choices and each to his/her own. If you choose or perhaps believe that you are contributing to the improvement of our country by slandering the whole nation in hope to bring change-that is fine, you are free to do so especially, online. Dont think for a second though that we will sit back, read all that negativity about our homeland and just go along with it. Remember lots of our forefathers died for that land to be what it is and what it will be. Change is happening and will continue in shaa Llah in the right direction. Remember, we have been on our own for only a little over 50 years. Thats nothing compared to almost 300 years for the US. Dont compare the two when you go to Morocco. I am sure you heard of the expression cannot compare apples to oranges-right?
Oh, by the way, I almost forgot- WE LOVE YOU TOO!!
Lastly, to those who responded by venting about the RAMs service, I am sorry to say that RAMs service worsened with the increase in the green card lottery winner number. The flight Casablanca-New York used to be a great flight and the service and the crew were fantastic back in seventies. There was one flight per week and almost always half full-Just like that glass
Wafin a hnipez?
A khai Akhai ara she garro!!
abdelnyc : Mr,Cervantes, l think you and many people like u r living in their own buble and refuse to see the horroble reality. stop dreaming and try to do something, freedom and improvement might start with a dream but it was never enough to accompish something. u speak about treating the desease, fine but u should daiegnoze it first. there is nothing wrong with exposing our dirt inorder to clean ourselves. it's not fair to compare morocco to the stastes, but compare it with Malaysia, Taiwan and Singapore.... l really feel ashame to say l am moroccan. people r proud of their homeland brands and acheivments, and what did we acheive as a country?? we all know what morocco is known for nowadays, really shame on us, and all of us including moroccans who live abroad. if we don't fight for our rights, don't expect the fassis to give it to u on a silver plattter. start with yourself. expose the situation wherever possible, boycot their services, don't spend your vacations in morocco, don't give to moroccan charities... and l guaranty you, within two years, they will start listening to us and the change will come. don't just keep repeating the same old sentence, IT'S JUST MOROCCO" we r morocco, and it's our responsibility to make a diffrence.
thank you all for this debate, at least it shows that there r people who still care about their homeland. SALAM..
Elmajed : Mr. Cervantes,
I don't know which Morocco and which dream are you talking about here? It's not the Morocco everybody knows, it is that Morocco you have in your own world. Wake-up, man, and smell the smoke (9Wala Bghiti Chi Garo?, may be "Faforite" for you!!!).
With all the respect, a Si Cervantes, you made some huge comments regarding Morocco's history, her is the first one "...Remember, we have been on our own for only a little over 50 years. That?s nothing compared to almost 300 years for the US. Don?t compare the two when you go to Morocco.,,,". I have no idea what are you trying to say here. Did you mean to say that Morocco has been colonized all those years (For your Information: Morocco just celebrated its 14 Centuries of existence last year if I'm not mistaking), since "Al Addariss, Al Marineen, Al Mouwahideen, and then Al Allaween. It seems to be confused about Morocco's history here. In your comments above, anyone reading it will understand that Morocco has been on their own for only 50 years, just like those countries which came to esistence after the Second World War. I have no idea what you meant by that?
Here is another one "...Lastly, to those who responded by venting about the RAM?s service, I am sorry to say that RAM?s service worsened with the increase in the green card lottery winner number. The flight Casablanca-New York used to be a great flight and the service and the crew were fantastic back in seventies. There was one flight per week and almost always half full-Just like that glass...." First of all I hope this is not going to be part of your so-called dream to exclude those Moroccans who happened to win a DV Lottery to come and search for the real dream and that is "The American Dream" which is less attainable than your "Moroccan Dream" you mentioned above. Sir, you need to appolagize to those Moroccans who came here to the States via DV Lottery. What's wrong with them? Aren't they real Moroccans too? Just because they were lucky and got picked-up to come here and search for a better opportunities which were not offered to them over there: Your kind of Morocco!!
Her is another one"...The Moroccan folks here have plenty of back up from the US welfare system to take care of them..." What do you exactly mean here? Are you trying to say that all Moroccans or most of them use Welfare Syatem? This a very huge statement to say here. For your information, not every Moroccan I know; and I know a lot of them here in the North-East part of the USA. Please, stop generalizing what making comments of this sort, because some of us can be offended by this kind of generalization. Moroccans are just like any other group of new commers to this great land of USA, not everyone is in welfare or get food stamps.
Respectively yours,
Cheers!
Thank you.
Elmajed.
DrSabour : As we can see here Mr. No name and I are interacting on a public forum. We are part of the Moroccan Diaspora regardless of whom we are or what we do. We dont know each other and we are not subordinated in any way. We are interacting at a horizontal level. One can sense that there is an abundance of disrespect in Mr. Nonames interventions. This makes a perfect illustration of what I meant by a deteriorating longitudinal social interactions in my article. What is extremely disturbing is that this is coming from someone who lived in the USA from the seventies judging by Mr. No names recollections of the half full, weekly flight from Casablanca to JFK. One would think that after all these years in a civilized society; one would learn how to respect other human beings regardless of what they think. Apparently you cant teach an old monkey new trick.
So its the US governments fault that la RAM service has gone bad. They gave more green cards to our fellow Moroccans than la RAM can handle. Someone is blaming the USA for giving so many Moroccans a shot at a new life, and subsequently takes pride in them using the US federal government welfare system. This is how some people are working so hard day and night in order to one day be exemplary citizens in Morocco.
Mr. Cervantes, by the virtue of the little that he knows about any kind of science or research is questioning the authority that licensed me to practice Medicine in the US. So let me answer you, it is the United States Medical Licensing Board after passing three United States Medical Licensing Exams. Two days each exam, each exam is 6 hours long answering 800 questions each session. Do the math Mr. Cervantes. This is even before embarking into a three years long residency program.This is after & years of medical school abroad. Add to that my Board Certification Exam. The beauty of it all, it was all my sweat, never had to kiss anybodys rear end. Got to work the moment I disembarked in New York. Before I knew any English I washed dishes in a Japanese Restaurant, got bossed around by a high school dropout and studied to get where I am right now. So Mr. Cervantes I dont know you, but I think I stand a better chance of being an exemplary Moroccan and a US citizen.
By the away, I still love you and I mean it. Tzeedek shi dkeeka d'atai oula mshiou njibo shi garo?
Cervantes : Abdelnyc,
I am sorry but none of your response makes any sense to me. We appear to be in different planes. It either you must re-read my comments or I must re-read yours. But unfortunately, since your response and comments revolve around some type of segregation of what you called Fassies and some other type of Moroccans, I dont really care to hear about that. Those kinds of remarks just demonstrate how un-Moroccan you are. We are one people not many people. You are still acting on the mentality of occupation. And perhaps its people like yourself and those who think like you that are the real problem in our country. You promote division, hate and conflict. You encourage mistrust and capitalize on conflict. We are looking for unification, and if not necessary love, at least RESPECT of one another-Fassie, shelh, rifi, jebli, saharaoui, amazighi, or 3roubi, it does not matter. Just to give you an idea of how far apart you and I are in terms of our vision and our capacity to expand our imagination far beyond the realm of borders, when I say my people, I include the whole world. So, you say I live in bubble, fine. At least I live in bubble full of peace, hope, positive energy and a vision to one day conquer your pathetic world of hate and division. Perhaps one day cure the filthy disease that has manifested itself in the core of your heart.
Yes, you and your likes are solving all types of problems with your promotion of anger, hate and division-right?
Anyway, I feel like I am wasting my time trying to make you understand what its all about. In order that you understand what people like me are all about, you must first cleanse your soul and purify your mind or perhaps do it the other way around, purify your soul and cleanse your mind. I am afraid that the road you and the likes of you are taking, will never lead to anything but a fragile society ruled by fear and hate. You and the likes of you will only build disunited states or communities vulnerable to be conquered by a snap of a finger. Shame on you for even being on this website with that kind of an attitude. I am fassi, I am jebli, rifi and 3roubi and who knows, since my father moved around the country so much, perhaps I have some brothers and sisters who might be shelhi and sahraoui. What about you? Are you my brother?
A khai A khai, ara she garo?!
A khai A khai, khaless 3lia she Coka?!
A khai A khai, Ara she derham?!
ahmed in la : I left Morocco in January of 1989 so I could not commit suicide, go to jail or lose my sanity.
I m planing to leave the U.S. so I could not commit suicide, go to jail or lose my sanity.
And yes, TFI DDO OU TFIH MEZYAAAAAAAN, was another reason.
There are a few differences, however, few of which have to do with what morals I have left and how I could embrace my, overly hyped, quest for wisdom tranquility and peace.
I no longer accept to be part of an economy, a system and an existence which taints me with the blood of children worldwide!
Please understand my writing anyway you choose and feel feel free to interpret it to your liking.
Morocco will be the way it is and the ship of advancement has long sailed.
Sufism could be reinvented and adopted as a way of life, free of time and space constrains.
KHAH DEHNIPEZ, I might understand a bit of your frustration and I m concerned that you might be in the same predicament which has pushed me to migrate twice...take it easy AKHAY DIALI.
The Doc earned his HEKMA, and he is due some respect, appreciation and gratitude.
If you happen to attend the doc s clinic in new York, do not let him put you under anesthesia! : )
We are all psychologically affected by TAMORROCANISM, it is in our blood and the diagnosis is emotional instability. Just kiddin, YA!
The cure lies with the recognition of the real ailement of Morocco, one which we keep going around and around and one which very few dare to address!
....the biggest villain...
6 years ago, I paid $80 for an extra piece of luggage from L.A. to Casablanca to Delta, with the understanding and assurances that the fee will cover the second leg of the trip, New York to Casa.
Once in New York, i was asked to pay again for the third piece of luggage. I do not have to name a name of someone who has been there for very long time, but you should know and guess how the argument must have been like!
During the conversation, i was told that if the fee is not paid, one of my pieces of luggage would be randomly removed and disposed of. I was also reminded that RAM does not have any storage area in New York and that the piece of luggage would simply be thrown in the trash!
$160 for a bunch of extra SHRAWET and few gifts worth a fraction of the fee.
RAM executive who should do and do and do and do, might have been in New York since the departure of Mr. Amagui and we yet have to hear from someone! B9A TSENNA!
Doc, do not worry about me crossing the street in Morocco; I intend for my residence, the farmer s market and the mosque to be all on the same side of the street.
Plan B, like JRANA KHRA, will be twice plan A.
And if you could tolerate ants crawling up you back, for medicinal reasons or else, please consider stopping by DOUAR LEHJAJAMA. With a short notice, I will have a HARSHA and a KASS DATAY MSHEHHER waiting for you.
BARAKA MIN LHEDRA LKHAWYIA, everyone; we are grateful to Khalid for this forum and we are proud of each other, having jumped ships to temporary economical, political and ideological safety. Now that we have established this of shore group, we could proceed with fulfilling the diaspora s objectives and dreams. I would expect hard core contributors to embrace constructive ways to achieve communally beneficial networking and to unite to pay back. America and its people are waiting for you to fulfill your civic duties and Morocco is waiting for you to fulfill your national ones. please use the energy wisely and refrain from bashing each other.
I could be viewed as being a peed off WELD LHARSHA, but to what avail would this attitude serve!?
please give me, each other, and the rest of the community a reason to review and frequent this forum and remember your won duty to contribute with a brick in the constructive and the healing effort as opposed to hammer blow.
SIROU YA WLIDATI (OU BNITATI), ALLAY KETTER MIN MTALKOUM.
zazette : I totally agree with Cervantes comments.
Cervantes : Mr. Majed EL,
Its amazing how predictable you can be. Your interpretations of what I wrote about seem to follow the line of negativity to the extreme. Not that I owe you an explanation. Regardless of what I write or say to you, you will always find a way to ridicule and twist things to make the person who disagrees with you a Monkey. That is fine. To clarify my statements to the rest of my brothers and sisters though, I will say that the reason I mentioned that the RAM service going south after the US government started issuing more lottery green cards to the Moroccan is simply to highlight the idea that with an increase in volume quality goes down. Its a simple fact. As for the welfare thing, once more, I have no intention nor do I take pleasure in humiliating a whole population of people just because I am angry at a few. I stated that simply to address Dr. Saboura, that if his intentions are to help people, our fellow Moroccan people, then he should think about helping those in more need back in Morocco. Those who dont have the luxury of governmental quality assistance as appose to those who live in the US of A, be it that they are Moroccans or Scandinavians.
As for the history of Morocco Mr. Majed (by the way, Elmajed howa Llah) you on the hand , are AbdelMajed, you are so wrong and I really dont have the time to review or bring you up to speed. It will take too long for me to write. Besides, you will just end up making fun of me and ridiculing me because you know that I am correct and you have no other weapon to reply with except insults. I have heard worse than what you called me and besides it does not really matter, we are in a virtual world. That is why I am Cervantes, that is, Mr. Cervantes to you, and you are whoever you are. I dont take personal and neither should you.
Finally, to Dr. Saboura, I am impressed with your accomplishments and we, as a community are proud to have your kind amongst us. BRAVO!! But, you are not alone my dear. The road you traveled was paved by us and the road we traveled was paved by those before us and thats the way the story goes AL Hamdou Li-Llah!!
But you basically proved my point, you were not educated as an MD in the States. And while yes, you did obtain the board certification by passing the exams so that you can practice in the states, my training and yours are not the same. Do you get my point? Had you been part of the system from the start you would know ( See below aoth) especially, regarding prevention of disease vs. cure etc.. I believe this is what has gotten us this far. Anyway, I am not sure if they make you Exam Board Certified MDs to repeat it or have you just forgotten it
I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant:
I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow.
I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.
I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug.
I will not be ashamed to say "I know not," nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient's recovery.
I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God.
I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.
I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.
I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.
If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help.
Finally, I will give you an old colleagues advice Dr. Saboura. Just to stay in good spirits while in the profession, repeat this oath before you leave home everyday along with Ayat al Kousi and youll be fine.
And again, for vacations, go to someplace other than Morocco. I am not sure what type of medicine you practice, but there is usually some very good symposia that you can use and make it Haja we zyara Ive been trying to have my group hold a conference in Fiji- they are still not falling for it. Wish me luck! Oh, yes I still LOVE YOU wakha kat3ayerni.
With Best wishes,
A khai a khai khaless 3lia she Fanta!!
A Khai a Khai 3tini she derham!
zazette : Ahmad in LA,
Schools of Medicine do not teach wisdom. A person holding a doctorate degree is not necessarily wiser than you. All we expect from an MD is to be good at what he does. I hope Drsabour is. We can learn wisdom from the fool, and the uneducated. Everyone deserves respect regardless of their level of education of titles. Btw, I also hold a doctorate degree. I do not put my real name here for professional reasons because I do not want to give the holly Google more infos than it has on me. My comments are shared with you and I do not wish to share them with anyone who looks up my name on Google. It would be better if Drsabour respects people choice to show or hide their identity and restrain from insulting them. If Drsabour was a published scientist he would understand why at least some of us do not show our real names here. Google is often used beside Pubmed to look up our publications.
Zazette,
And again I agree with Cervantes comments….
zazette : Dr Sabour,
I hope you try to understand my views as I try to understand yours. Your article has some truth (that all Moroccans are aware of) but here is what people disliked. It was a good idea to write it to stir up a discussion about Morocco but it was not wise to insult all Moroccans. You generalized and all generalizations are wrong when it comes to judging others. Also while showing your degree you also showed despise towards uneducated people (by using terms like high school drop off). We are all worthy of respect and we are all unique people regardless of our education level. It is not your degree that makes you a better person but your understanding of others and what you do for them. You never know that high school drop off could be wiser than you.
I do not need to lecture you about how to influence and deal with people, but insulting and criticizing them won’t get you the respect and appreciation you are looking for.
For the person who suggested to boycott Morocco and stop sending our charity there, here is something I strongly believe in and I hope you do too: “it is life that gives unto life - while you, who deem yourself a giver, are but a witness.”
Peace and prosperity to our beloved country. Good luck everyone!
Z
alaouiy : Wow and nothing but wow for all the comments and views written regarding the subject matter which is the condition of the Moroccan society and the problems it is facing with no ultimate solution on the horizon.
I am not going to mention any names or comments but over all, most if not everyone jumper over the doctors throat like he committed a high crime and everyone felt insulted. The truth is always hard to swallow when it describes reality the way it is.
No one has to agree or accept what he mentioned in his article but certainly could have respected his courage to come out and speaks his mind in the manner his did. The message was loud and clear. Moroccos problems have not changed and the society is not showing any sign of changing anytime soon. In his heart and sole, his hopes that change could happen sooner, the least he could do.
At the same, he wanted to bring the subject to the table of dialogue and discussion in the goal to see if the Moroccan community in the United State is able with all its resources to play positive role in any kind in bringing and influencing a real change in Morocco.
Everyone with no exception felt insulted, emotion took over common sense and logic never was shown in any of comment I read during the last few days. I am not defending the Doctor rather I am accepting the reality of the ground and respecting his views.
Let go back to I have mentioned in the past. Any Moroccan residing in the United, Immigrated under the pressure of social, economic and political reasons related what actually is going on In Morocco. We all blessed with the opportunity to better ourselves by acquiring knowledge, fame, money and power. It could not get any better. We are living a dream, ours and one for those who never make is to America.
These knowledge, fame, money and power are good opportunities to keep projecting a good image of the land that made us we are today. The land that has our childhood, friends, parents and our ancestors who were great with their ways and the pride we carry in our heart and souls till the days Good take us to the other world.
We should not forget in the past we all were part the country we criticize now a day. We were part of the corrupted system the culture some of us dont like to be part of anymore.
Morocco remains the same but most of us have changed hopefully to the better and not the worse giving in to the bad side of the American society. I challenge the ones who changed of the better not to judge our brothers and sisters in Morocco. Many of them are happy with lives and life styles, other are working hard to better themselves and other not able to do anything. They lack resources to advance and change but certainly the desire.
I could go on and on with the issue which is not sample as we may think. I am inviting each and every one of you to share with us one good and one bad experience he/she recently experienced while visiting Morocco at the airport, inside the traffic, in a coffee shop or anywhere. This may be a good way to learn from each others experiences in which there is always a lesson to be learned and the opportunity to be informed.
There is another available opportunity to those who able to vote in American election to contact their representative in the US congress and learn their views of Morocco, its government, society and culture and how they may influence real changes in the Kingdom. Let talk and do the walk and talking is cheap.
Let the conversation going under the spirit of mutual respect.
DrSabour : Si Cervantes, first: as much as I would love to give you some credit for my academic achievements, I am afraid I just cant. I dont know which paved roads you are talking about, the road I took was not paved at all and the journey was too hard to describe. If you ,and the ones before you, have paved any roads, you either did a terrible job or those roads simply they didnt figure on my map. And no, I still dont get your point about not being educated in the US. I beat lots of US graduates to one of the most prestigious universities and hospitals in the world (Columbia University and New York Presbyterian Hospital). I do primary care and I know a lot about preventive medicine. Please find my page drsabour.com on Facebook and see how I do it. Second: Hasha wash 3airtek, you know I was only shielding myself from your and some others ferocious and not quite so merciful attacks. Anybody can reread the article and see that there were no insults geared towards any particular person; it is about the situation in Morocco. What I have said in the article doesnt even begin to scratch the surface of what is really going on in Morocco. What prompted me to write this article is actually too embarrassing to put online. I didnt put my article on the Huffington Post, because I am just as, if not more jealous about my country as any other Moroccan. I posted it on a forum made by Moroccans and for the Moroccans. I posted it, as I said, so we can open an intelligent and constructive debate about the issue. But it so seems that Instead of staying on target, somehow we always manage to get dragged into abrasive discussions and futile polemics, and detract from the real issue. That is why I am no longer going to address any more tangential comments.
Well except this one. Si Ahmed in LA, Thank you for the invite I might take you up on that Kass Mshehhar avec Elharsha ou shi zeet beldia meziana one day insha allah. Si Cervantes, I dont know where you are or even who you are (thanks to the inconvenient beauty of being anonymous), Almousamaha!! And if you are ever on the east coast you are welcome to drop by for something other than the virtual cup of tea.
So to go back to our sheep. What is wrong with our country and what do we do about it? Suggestions anyone? You know why? Because the situation in Morocco really sucks. Why cant we compare ourselves to the US or to the Scandinavians or to the youngest country of all, Israel? (Economically and socially speaking. Politics, Palestine and Gaza aside). Why do we have to compare ourselves to Mali or Equatorial Guinea? So we can feel good about our measly progress? Who should address these issues if it is not us? Are these problems going to fix themselves one day?
PS: Somebody asked about evidence of la RAMs bad service. Or should I say the flabergastingly horrible service. This may not constitute material evidence, but it is my story with la RAM. I was left hanging to dry in the airport (Mohammed V) twice during my lifetime of travel, with my ticket in hand and travel confirmation. Once I was put on another flight and had to miss one week of school. The second time I had to buy a whole new ticket. On both occasions, by the time I was trying to sort out the issue with some RAM officials, the airplane had already taken off . I am sure at each time they must have given my seat to some well connected person. The third time on a flight to Paris they tried to pull the same trick on me; I made a huge scene at the airport and blocked the registration line. And guess what? It worked and I got on the plane and 18 (eighteen) other people were left hanging to dry in the airport. The flight was overbooked by eighteen people. Go figure. Aside from my academic achievements in the US, getting on that plane that day was one unforgettable achievement in Morocco that I will always be proud of. Love and Peace everyone and Happy Badad's day.
Cervantes : A kai hmidou dLA dyalna,
A 3yina man heshmou a sahbe! Feyn ma kanqoulo n3al shitan qui jee she bnadem ou kay ybdaw y fehmou 3lina a sahbe. Kay jiw nehna kay doqo she shwiyesh del khedma shwiyish the ta3ab ou kay s7abloum houma li weslou a sahbe!
Ghir kay houzou rass shi shwiyesh kay nsaw mayen jaw ou kayweleew homa li kay3arfou shini kayen, ou kay bdaw ye shoufou blad we nass dyalna f7al ze3ma she 7aja ghriba. Moushkil howa kayebdaw y tay7o be nass dialna fhal houma mashi menoum ze3ma.
Hlawa dial had she kamel howa djebrou baqi dak she dialo mayebess fe-dchar. Fhamtini a khai dyalna?!!
Ntina fe LA? Ana mashi b3id bezaf menek. She nhar ghadi ne 3mel shi dawra n3andek temak we nwarko m3a ba3titna-Heh. Shdharlek a Khai?!
3rafti ana a khai, ana makeyen ghir tka7kih 3la hadou. 3andek ye s7ablek ana m3asseb awla she 7aja. Dounya haaaanya hnaya. 7naya ghir kanebghiw n7awlou nebhou bnadem fhal hayda. Mayana fhal hadou makan shoufshi 7eta fedjiha dyaloum. Fhamtini a khai diali!?!
Kate3raf hadik noukta dial el hmar hashak and sba3? Mouhim, hada wahd el hmar kan mashi we jah n3ass, jahouwa warek teht wahd a shejra we n3aaass. Shwiyesh ou houwa bgha yetkessel, howa tlaq rejlou ou howa kayhess brejlou derbet rass the sba3. Houwa haydak khawfan ou howa yesma3 sba3 kayqool a yemma rassi!! Le hmar, ma taqshi beli howa drab sba3 we sba3 kayebkee-S7ablou kaye7lem, ou howa ye3awda mara akhra. 3awtani sba3 qal ayemma rassi!!
Le hmar frah, oubda kay 3ti ne sba3 tchootiss ne rass, hada mor akhor. El hayawan dial lghaba kamlin kherjou oubdaw kay dehkou 3la sba3. kamline kay shta3jbou fel hmar kay slakh sba3. wel hamar 3ejbou halou webda kayd7aaak ou kay zid ye3ti tchootiss ne sba3. shwiyesh, shwiyesh lehmar mabqashi kay sma3 d7ik ou jbar ghir skaaat. Jahowa wqaf bash y shouf sheni kayen. Howa ftah 3aynou ou yejbar she 3ashra dial sbou3a mdouwrin bih a sahbe! Fdik sa3at dik sba3 li kan kayakoul ftahrou shaf fe sou7abou ou qal loum wash drharlkoum a souhabi ya qoultlkoum ghadi njiblkoum el hmar kay dhak.
Mouhim,
No te preocupes por me Pp!!
I am good!
Al-hamdou Li Llah!!
Wafin a hnipez!??
A Khai a khai ara she garro!?
A Khai a khai khaless 3lia she coka!?
alaouiy : Good Job laila, you are among few who undesratand the problem and have a stategy to accomplish the goal. Ram has to be boycoted to recieve our message a may change its ways to treat travelers the right way for the money they pay.
her_ca : Dear Dr. Sabour! great article! You couldn't have said it better!
Let's all focus on the issue at hand, rather than on the messenger! The purpose of these articles is not to attack the writer, but rather to have interesting debates, suggestions, opinions about the topic of the article.
Truth can be hard to swallow at times, but it is the truth and we have to deal with it. Morocco has its own share of issues and challenges, like any other country in the world. Our duty as Moroccans is to acknowledge them and try to fix them. Admitting the problem is halfway to recovery!
For Mr. Ahmed LA who no longer accept to be part of an economy, a system and an existence which taints him with the blood of children worldwide! Just remember that once in Morocco, you will be part of an economy, a system and an existence which taints you with the blood of its own Moroccan children left out to die in the cold this past winter, Children deprived from basic rights such as education and healthcare....the list is long! Best of luck to you in your move though!
As long as we keep on spending money in return of lousy services such as LA Ram, they will never listen to us and live up to our expectations and standards! The only way to get their attention, is to boycott them!
Have a great day everyone!
Laila
ahmed in la : Laila, (her _ca); you can have it. Give me the deed to your America and I will sign it.
Morocco has not dropped a bomb on Hiroshima, has not killed 1 million Vietnamese, has not invaded just about every global surface, has not supplied arms, intelligence, money, guarantees to Israel.
Morocco does not hide behind pretentious world dominance and power and does not resort to unnecessary waste to flex its muscles.
Morocco is not presently exercising empirical quests, does not maintain 140 international military bases, has not benefited from African, 400-year free labor, has not been built on the graves of indigenous civilizations or thrives on the labor of third world immigrants for the benefit of its aristocracy.
Morocco has not benefited from genetically altering human diet, has not invented one-time use seeds, has not exploited the genetic uniqueness of indigenous virgins for the benefit of commercializing human DNA and enriching its pharmaceuticals, is not deafening marine life with sonar, polluting oceans with TNT, mercury and lead, is not the biggest industrial country who refused to sign the Kyoto Protocol, ........
Yes there are similarities, but there we go again with rotten oranges vs. rotten apples.
My dear naive you, I have spent 9 months in a Moroccan military academy in 1976, a school within Port Lyautey Navy Base, AKA, Base Militaire De Kenitra, and since 11, have known Americans and what they represent and stand for.
I do not want to have anything to do with a culture which does not contain, understands or recognizes the equivalent of ALLAY YERHEM LWALIDIN, ALLAY N3EL CHCHITAN or LLAY JAZIC BIKHIR.
I wish you had said something smarter! What a disappointment.
Cervantes,
both you and doc are welcome to visit. I would love to see both of you in the same place at some point. I hope you like Moroccan tea.
Zazzette,
If doc has no wisdom, who would? He seems to be highly intelligent.
And yes you could learn wisdom from a fool, but please keep it for your own use and do not impose it on us.
You live among the fools you learn wisdom from; we just call you all Yankees!
To your credit, if you have no tools to identify, measure, recognize and judge sanity, anything would seem psychotic to you and psychosis would seem normal; kind of like the snake who got so drunk at a bar that when it exited to go home, it went strait.
What Morocco represents has been imposed on it.
What the U.S is, is what its own people have made out of it.
A big difference.
I m a firm believer in:
You were the best nation ever raised up for mankind,
you enjoin which is righteous and speak against evil.
Please only reply or comment if you agree with me; I dislike my ideological foes.
KHAY HMED,
BABA, LAYBI3 ELKIF; OU 3ANDOU LEFLOUS, HAYDA!
elmajed : I Agree with Her_ca....Well Said Leila.
marouane39 : ahmedla you shouldnt have moved here in the first place if you gonna talk all this sh..t about america.oh but no its different now cus u used it to your own advantage lol what an hypocrit...
Cervantes : Khay hmed d'LA,
It goes like this: BABA Kaybi3 elkif w'3andou hayda deflous!
You almost got it.
wa sh3al!
newguy : Mr. Ahmed in La,
ask the doc for a chill pill and be nice. All Laila was saying is that you might be disillusioned with Morocco just like you were disillusioned with the US before you moved here.
I just believe you are moving for personal reasons. That's it and that's all. Of course you can rant and ride the moral high ground, but the fact remains that you lived in this country for over 20 years, saved up a chunk of money, and got an education (academic or otherwise) etc; wach yallah banou lik the children of the world? You can just say that you've been through a failed marriage with an american woman whom the court and the society has been in favor of (you wrote extensively about it on this forum) then a couple of years ago you married a young girl straight from the homeland who is 15-20 years younger than you and now you want to move to morocco in order to better "manage" your new family. All power to you man, literately ;)
Good luck to you my friend. Your craziness will be missed around here.
Dear Mr. Sabour,
Thank you for such insightful article.
I concluded that your article addressed three elements of our dysfunctional society: A political system as archaic as the Mekhzen and the kleptocratic class 2) A corrupt religion 3) An illiterate society
Thanks once again for your article and congratulation on your new clinic.
Karim A.
her_ca : Ahmed (in LA and soon to be in his Moroccan kingdom); calm down! I never claimed that the US was an Angel!
If you have known since 11 what America stands for, then Im just curious as to why you still moved and lived in it?And as Mr. Karim A said, now all of sudden you care about the children of the world and the Hiroshima victims? And..andtalk about a very delayed reaction!
Show a little gratitude to the country that has opened doors to you! Come on! What a disappointment! Dont be so ungrateful!
And just as a side note,
You were the best nation ever raised up for mankind,
you enjoin which is righteous and speak against evil.
Do you know who this is talking about? Its not talking about the current weak muslim Umah! Certainly not talking about Morocco! This is talking about real sincere Muslims, that have become scarce nowadays!
Nothing has been imposed on Morocco, thats just a desperate attempt to throw blame on someone else! Look at India and China and all the progress they have made over the recent decades in different science fields! How come they havent been imposed upon! As long as corruption is in the core of every system in Morocco, it will remain in its current deplorable state!
Laila
DrSabour : Hello everybody.
I want to thank everyone in this forum for your interventions and want you to know that I appreciate everyones input especially the ones that showed some understanding of the situation. Some of the interventions were beside the point and gratuitously rude, but the exchange was nevertheless interesting. The number of posts does show that this is an issue that we all hold close to our hearts and souls. We all hope for a better Morocco and we all wish that we had a Morocco that respect and preserves the dignity of its citizens, that strives for the prosperity of its nation and safeguards the well being of its people, a Morocco that respects and cherishes its environment, that educates and protects all its children and a Morocco that takes good care of its vulnerable orphans and elderly, a Morocco where the law is applied fairly and equally etc.
I went to medical schools with students from all around the world. When I was asked, I often times made up stories to make Morocco look like the greatest country in the world. Because I always believed so. The stories I told about Morocco were fascinating judging by what I remember about the looks on peoples faces. The stories I told about Morocco were about a Morocco other that the one I lived in. I used to get profoundly offended each time somebody said anything I didnt like about Morocco. I wore my pride of Morocco on my sleeves. When I just came to the US, and life was tough, I washed dishes in a restaurant, I never said that I was from Morocco, not because I wasn't proud of Morocco but I didn't want people to think that Morocco sent losers like me to America. I never lamented on the fact that I grew up in a Morocco that punished my whole family just because my father at some point embraced different and undesirable political views than the ones our government would have wished for. My father was imprisoned twice and suspended from his teaching job without pay for over 14 years. The first time he was sent to prison, I, the eldest of 6, was only 14 years old. My youngest sibling was just born then. My beloved Morocco threw my whole family of 8 people into the deepest poverty without mercy or remorse. We lived on charity and on the little hand crafts my mother used to make and sell in the souk. My 3 youngest siblings paid and are still paying the dearest; they never finished high school and are struggling to rebuild their lives at an older age. For my whole life, I was always embarrassed to reveal this part of my life story; because I grew up in a Morocco that looked down and often times despised its people because they are poor. Anyway, Had I been just a little smarter I probably could have written 8 best seller biographies, one for each member of my family. This is why I am and forever will be grateful to America not only because it opened its door for me and gave me the opportunity to build a nice career and have a prosperous life but also because it taught me to be proud of who I am, of my achievements and to never be ashamed of who I was.
So Si Ahmed in LA, you are right about everything you said about America. But if that is the main reason you are going back to Morocco, I am sorry to say that America being wrong on a number of issues doesnt make Morocco a better place period. There is simply no contest. I find it hard to believe that you are losing sleep about the Japanese that died from the nuclear bomb or the Vietnamese burnt by a napalm or even more so about a dolphin disturbed by a sonar. I am more prone to believe that you might lose some sleep about the dozen of beggars, boys and girls that are going to come to your table at a caf in Casablanca to ask for some change, I am even more prone to believe you might have nightmares thinking why those children arent in their schools. I am more prone to believe that you might lose some sleep when you see a defendant get away with a crime because they padded some judges pockets or when you find out that people actually die in hospitals hallways because of inadequate healthcare. The Morocco you left a long time ago so you dont commit suicide or lose your sanity is still the same in so many aspects my friend. Of course there are more paved roads and highways, more hotels and golf courses but the primary school I went to is exactly the same now as it was forty years ago. Of course this has nothing to do with you retiring or not retiring to Morocco. This was never the issue to begin with. Maybe I will do the same one day regardless of what Morocco is going to be like. I truly wish you the best.
So the question again is what is wrong? I personally think that corruption is one big ailment in the Moroccan society. Its effect is trickling down to adversely impact every aspect of the Moroccan society. So why not create an authority dedicated to fight corruption, lets say a division of corruption police for example. Just like when they created the university police aka AWAX in the early 80s. They were really doing a great job beating the crap out the poor students for no rhyme or reason.
So long my friends. Have a great weekend.
ytwafin : It's been a while that I haven't responded but better late than never.
Great articles! Right on!
As to the counter arguments, some are valid but based on a utopian world rather than reality. I share the same things the L.A says in my heart, but every time I go to morocco (not with RAM- it's been years I gave up on them) which very often, I see a disheartening reality of the makhzanian elite, and the Corrupted administrators and the Others ( les autres).
It is already said, but to get to the Utopian Morocco some talk about here, I suggest they use the article as a starting point. It is a summary of a good diagnosis of what is ailing Morocco.
A final note, As honest and proud L.a is, I hope to hear from you once back to Labled. I expect you would be as realistic as you have been describing the States; which leads me to the real final point (sorry),
The States is still a great second Bled for us- It gave you and us the opportunity to do things- you worked for it- but at least, you presented with that opportunity. Try Morocco and let us know- No hurry,
Be good!
DrSabour : Don't sweat it Zazette. All's well that ends well.
her_ca : Dear Dr. Sabour!
I am so proud of you. You have gone through a lot and came out a winner at the end. While many other people in your circumstances would have given up.
Thank you for opening up to us, it takes a real man to do something like that.
Best of luck to you and your family! May God reward all of you for all injustice you faced.
Sincerely,
Laila
zazette : I am proud of you Majid
Still can't stop my tears because you remembered me my own experiences and because I feel bad I misjudged you,
Best of luck
Z
Wafine13 : Hello Mr. Sabour, I like your article and admire your courage for coming forward with this subject although I don't think it makes any difference whether u are a doctor or not. Quiet honestly, it would have been much more simpler if you just signed your name without using Dr...as I think some of your haters here are just jealous by your accomplishments. I don't think u need to apologize to anybody for writing the article, the individuals who oppose you here obviously see you as a villain (which I don't think you are). They are clueless as to what goes on, and I can't believe they are so oblivious to it! I have travelled with RAM numerous times, and there was not one time, that I had a pleasant experience...hard to believe that some in here have had only pleasant experiences ( I guess u can attribute that to the luck of the draw, I just happen to be on the end of it every time I travel, which in my estimation defies the laws of probability)...but just because they didn't have bad experiences flying with the RAT(S), it doesn't necessarily mean that they don't happen. Some were asking for specific details instead of general comments about how bad LA RAM is. I have many, but don't have the desire nor the time to list them all: BUT Here is one that sticks and will stick in my mind until the day I turn my jersey in (the day I expire). We are travelling back from Casablanca 2 years ago confirmed and all. 4 adults and 2 children some of which sick as dogs. We get to the airport to check in 2 hrs before departure, we are standing there for what it seems like an eternity, when I had enough, I made my way to the counter to see what was taking so long to check people in. Come to find out they stopped checking passengers in (some 25 or 30 in all) the reason, cuz some a-hole, decided to take a trip to NY for the week end to get his whatever fix he gets? and his entourage (some 18 other a-holes brownnosers) had to go with him. Worse yet: there were still seats available, but apparently we were not worthy of boarding the same plane as the a-hole, so the plane leaves with a few empty seats....after complaining (and who gives a rats a** about your complaints) we were told, it's called Royal Air Maroc not Air Maroc, so anyone in the royal family has precedence over us (small people).....tickets or not confirmed or not...they stranded us until the next day....if that's not bigotry/humiliation/disrespect/ at their best, I don't know what is? Don't get me wrong, I love labled and always willbut know this AS LONG AS I CAN HELP IT, I OR ANYONE IN MY FAMILY WILL NOT TRAVEL WITH (RAM: Real A** Moroccans) EVEN IF THEY OFFER IT FOR FREE (I KNOW THAT'S WISHFUL THINKING), BUT IF THEY DO OFFER IT FOR FREE, WE WILL NOT GO WITH THEM
BY THE WAY THEY GAVE VOUCHER TO USE ON OUR NEXT TRIP WORTH 240 FOR THE KIDS AND 300 FOR ADULTSI KEPT AS REMINDER OF THAT WONDERFUL DAY.
BTW, THE VOUCHER? YOU CAN ONLY USE IF YOU CALL RAM THEMSELVES TO PURCHASE TICKETS, GUESS WHAT, THEY JACK UP THE PRICE SO THEY RECOUP THE VALUE OF THE VOUCHERS hahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!! UNREAL!!!!!
The difference between you and the people who oppose your honesty is simple: You express your love for your country by asking for dignity, on the other hand they express their love for their country by rejecting it an accepting humiliation and disrespect.
Sing it!!! Small people, one day they'll get big, and those you call minority are most of the people that you see!!! Ziggy Marley.
zazette : wafin13, you can't read people's mind. What makes you think that those who did not agree with the article are haters, jealous or they don't care about what is happening in Morocco? Is that the only reason why people dislike a book or a movie? Because they hate or are jealous of the author or because they don’t care about the issue presented. Sometimes the form in which the author presents an issue can mislead the author. And that was my own experience. I misunderstood the purpose of this article. But the discussion that followed and especially Dr. Sabour’s comments , 1st showed who he is and knowing that I could understand better his article. I saw it at first as an insult and arrogant attitude towards all Moroccans (I have changed my mind now).
Please understand first and still don't judge. Dr Sabour is clearly smart and very self assured person. He handles arguments very well and I do respect him for that. Please follow his example and do not insult or misjudge others.
For La Ram we could create a facebook page and list our reviews of good and bad experience there.
zazette : Sorry I meant:
Sometimes the form in which the author presents an issue can mislead the READER.
DrSabour : Wafin13 and Zazette I am going to explain why I preferred to put my name on my article with Dr. I didnt do it to brag about it or to claim any kind of superiority over my fellow Moroccans. I never liked to toot my horns. I know there are a lot of Moroccans (allah yehfadhoum we ekammal 3lihoum) that are far more educated and far more successful than I am. First I did it because that is who I am, pure and simple and second because I didnt find a reason not to do it. I find that is the best way of assuming the responsibility of I say. But most importantly I dont like to hide behind fictitious names because I have a real one. I found that most of the people who hide behind a pervasive pseudonym are easy to cross boundaries, be rude and insulting because in their minds there is no way they can be held accountable for their acts. Thats all.
PS: Wafin13 I didnt sense any hatred in the realm of all this exchange.
Laila and Zazette thank you for you kind words and Allah m3akoum.
zazette : I do agree that when you use your real name you become more accountable for everything you write and that is probably one reason why I and others do not use our real names (shame on me :)) but another more important reason is that the comments I write here are meant to be shared with people of this forum and not with everyone else who looks up my name on Google. But it is a work in progress and may be one day I'll stop worrying about little things and use my real name.
Best and good luck to everyone here and there (in Morocco).
Thank you Dr Sabour for your kind wishes and for writing this article. I did learn something
zet
Wafine13 : Zazette,
It wasn't my intention to judge anyone sorry...I ommmited the word "maybe" in the sentence. No Crystal ball here, My bad. If I had a crystal ball, I wouldn't be here.
Wasalamo3laikom.
Best wishes to all
Laters
slaveofthetruth
berrani : Salam all! Frankly, I don't know why some Moroccans don't see the real face of Morocco. Is it really that Ahlu al jahalati fi na3imi......? Wake up people! la makhzen.. la che3b dial rbe7. As much as we love Morocco, as much as -most of the Moroccans carry a sick mentality- make us hate it. To all of you who are going back. Good luck wellah yesebberkom. Shut your eyes and 9di we3eddi.............
cosmos23 : To Dr. Sabour,
I can't believe you wasted your time replying to some unmentionables. You simply rubbed them the wrong way. They can't handle the truth that you are presenting to them. I think your title as an MD pissed them off. You represent eveything that they are not; they resort to personal attack, veering away from the main issue at hand. One of them copied and pasted the Oath just to show that he knows it all. It is so childish. I truly believe that this website is infiltrated by the Moroccan secret service and I will not be surprised if these unmentionables are working for them. Look at the language they use- typical of people whose hearts are hateful and downwright immature.
I wish you the best Dr. Sabour with your practice.
Who am I? : This whole thing has been very entertaining to read. It's amazing all the stuff that can come out of one bad flight experience :)
As I was reading the back-and-forth (for lack of a better term) between some of the members, I couldn't help but sense a clash of generations, plain and simple. I don't think anyone is right or wrong. Everyone sees things based on their current life situation and that pretty much drives the way they comment. It is no secret to anyone here that we Moroccans - myself included, are so passionate about what we think to a point that we mix emotion with logic sometimes, hence personally attacking each other and leading the comments so far away from the subject of the article.
A few years ago, I would have totally commented the way Laila, New guy and some others commented. I am not where Ahmed in LA is yet, I could very well be in his shoes very soon. I came here thinking I had nothing, now that I have all those things, I realized I had things that were and still are more valuable, priceless for that matter, and all are for my taking if I choose to move back.
Can you put a price on a "Noukta"? Can you put a price on "Lah yjazik bikhir? Mabrouk l3id? Bessa7a wa ra7a? Spending l3id amongst family and friend? etc etc etc.
I hope I didn't mix emotions with my logic too much :) I'm not an expert on anything, just a guy that learned so much from life experiences.
Dr Sabour...I would like to let you know that an article that prompts this many comments has every ingredient of a good thought provoking article. Gratitude! And please Keep doing it.
Peace.
DrSabour : Good morning every one, and thank you again for all your comments and your well wishes. I just felt the need to reply to some comments.
Dear Cosmos23, I agree with you, some comments were abrasive, disrespectful at times even insulting. I have read many posts and comments on Wafin.com before, so I was expecting to get some kind of heat anyway and I was prepared to address it. From all things that I learned in America, one that I think is very important is not to be dismissive of other people and other peoples opinions, good or bad. What I think should be dismissed from our behavior and attitude it the notion of alhogra that we grew up with, i.e pushing aside, even demeaning, people that we thing are not relevant to our wellbeing. I posted the article to create a discussion, so it would have been counterproductive to just dismiss posts I didnt like. I dont want to claim to have the upper hand here but I do feel like I am the last one standing, so it wasnt too bad of a wasted of time.
What cleared out from this forum is, as it was brought up, if we want to improve Morocco, we should improve ourselves and our attitudes. Take the time to assimilate the information before jumping to conclusions. Take the time to listen to each other instead of just waiting to reply. Respect other peoples opinions and views without subjecting them to prejudice. We can achieve a lot by bettering ourselves.
Some comment mentioned the moving train of progress in Morocco. Sure, I agree. One can see an obvious improvement in the infrastructure, highways, roads, real estate developments, supermarkets etc... But one also needs to ask the question, who is that benefiting, certainly not the popular mass. It is benefiting the investors, the capital holders. If anything, this illusionary progress is actually adversely impacting a good number of the population. Everybody now a day is raving about the progress made in Marrakech. Yet, ask the Marrakchis and you will get a totally different feeling. Ordinary people are being squeezed out of the city because of the skyrocketing cost of living. The traffic in Marrakech is turning unbearable. There is very little to absolutely no progress in the social sphere i.e. Education, healthcare, social services, employment, free press etc... Some of these services are even deteriorating day after day, year after year. Morocco ranked number 18 in international mathematic Olympiad in 1986. It ranked 74th in 2009.
Some comments criticized the idea of having basic human right and subtending to peoples basic social and economic needs as equivalent to utopia. I find that as a self defeating attitude and I equate it to an act of capitulation. It is giving up on the millions of people that cant speak for themselves. The people that have been marginalized and kept in the darkness of illiteracy for so many years, that they dont even know whats good and whats not good for them. Take for example at the plight of the people displaced by inundations in Sidi Yahya El Gharb. Hundreds of people are left to their own devices, without shelter, food, drinking water, sewage etc... One should search YouTube for videos to see the conditions that people are living in. To me thats how we gage the progress of a nation. We should gage the progress by how efficiently a government can intervene and help its people in need, not by a fancy building or 5 star hotels that belong to some corporate entities that only plays to the benefit of its owners.
Some commented about the free market economy. We all see how the free market economy is working in America. It is certainly not all that great. This is even in a country where capitalism has evolved since its inception. Morocco never evolved as a capitalistic economy. Morocco was always governed by feudalism, where a number of people were given a free will and absolute powers, in orders to protect the monarchy. This has created enormous economic and social disparities within the society, created the useful Morocco(ans) and the not so useful Morocco(ans). So what we have in Morocco is far from being a free market economy. Most of the projects are owned by one corporate entity that belongs to an elite group of people. This entity has the backing of a behemoth political system that protects it from competitors.
Anyway my friends, I dont claim to be an expert in politics or economics, these are just my 2 cents generated by my common sense and I am more than willing to learn from my peers.
Keep your comments coming and lets teach each other and learn from each other.
Thank you all and my best regards.
Cervantes : Dr.Saboura,
Now you are talking!! Had you initially posted your last comments as your original article, we would have seen a cracked door to a discussion and who knows; perhaps the interaction would have been more positive and productive. As I mentioned to you in earlier comments, your original article sounds like you are just vomiting your anger at us because you were not satisfied with the way your vacation went. These last comments however, seem to outline an analytical approach and draw a sort of realistic image of the situation in our home land. In my opinion, this is a good start in initiating a discussion whose ultimate goal would be to hopefully start a virtual brainstorm session to come up with useful ideas that could potentially have a positive impact on the situation of our people back home. So, Dr. Saboura, now you are on your way to the next step. Frankly, this is where I would have wanted someone with your abilities to start. Because in reality, all these issues that you have presented, and as I mentioned to you in earlier comments, are already know to most of us. The discussion that we want to engage in should revolve around SOLUTIONS not problems. The stuff you outlined in your original article can be done by any given guy at any given coffee shop in Morocco. Even the guy who sales Qasbour wel M3adnous in the market is able to vent out his anger on how bad things are in his environment. Dr. Saboura, the diseases have already been diagnosed, what we need now is to stop wasting our energy on ElKLAM EL FARAGH and start investing our energy in proposing containment, perhaps propose treatment, and most importantly start investing in preventive measures for the long term (ie: the generations to come). Your next comments Dr.Saboura should present us with solutions to all these ailments that you have outlined in this forum. Forget about me, and forget about what I or anybody else thinks about you. Dont be emotional. Stay in the course and show us what you can come up with. Maintain a logical approach to your arguments. You can draw sympathy from some of the crowd by appealing to the emotions (I had a hard life, I washed dishes, my family was made poor by the government bla, bla, bla) this is not important to the cause nor is it relevant to the subject. And yes, some of these folks might side with your approach merely because they feel sorry for you, but not necessarily because they are using their logic to understand the issues at hand. In addition, this type of approach just makes you or anybody sound like you are just holding a grudge against your country because you had a terrible experience growing up there. Some of sympathizers seem to also hold the same grounds. Personally, I dont want these types of people siding with me anyway. They can call me whatever they want and insult me as much as makes them happy. My goal is neither to win popularity contest nor to advertise who I am or what I do-get it?
By the way, I wrote you what I thought were good and descent comments explaining my reasons not to use my real name, but the Wafin team decided not to print it- NOT in my control. In any case, this is not supposed to be about me or about you. You made yourself public and advertised what you do and I chose to remain virtual. You do believe in what you preach-(freedom of choice)-right? As for my profession, I can guarantee you that I am not a looser as some have suggested, but rather a humble professional who does not see the point of bringing his profession to the arena as it has no relevance to the subject at hand.
Lastly, dont get cough being labeled as he who was hungry and now is full-you know what mean?
OH, I almost forgot again, WE still LOVE YOU.
Cant wait for your next comments
A Khai a Khai Khaless 3lia she pookadio!
A Khai a Khai dakhalni m3ak ne campo!
A Khai a Khai ara she garro!
DrSabour : Mr. Cervantes, enough tickling your fancy, let that mouse go from in between your gluts and get my name straight please. It is Dr. Sabour not Saboura. Okay? You are abusing my sense of self deprecation. You know, through your comments in this forum you revealed so much about yourself, I can see through you. I want to tell you so much, I already feel sorry for you. You are trying to assure us that you are an intellectual humble professional, yet all you can come up with is an utterly nonsensical and irrelevant rambling. Your comments including this last one have brought nothing to the table. You are just pulling back to square one. Or maybe you just want to be that last one to say something. Sure Ill grant you that wish, you be the last one standing, but know you will be standing in a puddle of your own narcissistic excrements my friends.
And by the way keep that love for yourself; you sure need some extra TLC.
My apologies every body. Sometimes you just need to call things by their names.
who am I? : A.H from Boston...Right on!
Cervantes : Remember Dr. Sabour, you are the one who allowed me to tickle my fancy in the first place. I just thought it was funny at the beginning- No disrespect to your family name. Now that youve changed your mind though, I am fair game Dr. Sabour. But my,my,my, you are soooo sensitive!! Dont be like that!! You know, its not good for your health.
Had I known that you had such thin skin, I would have rapped my comments in a flowery envelope for you.
SMAHLI Dr.Sabour!!
3omro dawoud may3awoud!
If you dont want love though, how about peace?
Remember, from my side, NO harm done! I never take it personal. DOUNYA HANYA!! Llah-i-Samhek dounya we Akhira!!
I only have two more questions for you.
1.) What is TLC?
2.) Am I the narcissist or is it my excrements?
Honestly, I am not trying to be a jerk; I just really dont know the answers to these questions. If for some reason though, you dont feel that its appropriate to answer, thats fine. I will find a way to figure it out.
Finally, and seriously, I do believe that Morocco and the Moroccan people need some serious efforts in the road of progress. That's not a secret. I do believe that the road is long and difficult. I am realistic that the results will not be seen by our generation or even the next. I also believe that unfortunately, things must get worse before they get better. As all positive changes, they will not come easy. We hope and pray that all the changes come in a peaceful and civilized way. To reiterate my initial point, I do believe that we are in no need for negativity and exposing ailments that we are aware of, but rather we should redirect our focus and energy on potential SOLUTIONS. For example, if I am sick, I dont need someone to keep telling me how sick I am- LI FIYA YEKFINI--I need some one to tell me how I can get better. Thats all.
AQOULOU QAWLI HADA WA ASTAGHFIRO LLAHA LI WA LAKUM!!
As for the cosmos guy who thinks that I am a secret agent, YES, my name is BOND, JAMES BOND-
newguy : Dr. Sabour,
Thank you so much for putting this clown in his place, and i urge you not to respond to him/her anymore. His/her behavior and interaction goes to demonstrate what you've tackled in your article as if it was a supporting "document" to your observations.
Karim
DrSabour : I kind of have a bitter taste in my mouth after my last comment. I wish I didnt have to say things like that. Cervates not only gets hung up on things that were said so long ago but he is determined to keep everybody else doing the same. Lets sort out this name thing. Cervantes, why do you feel the urge or the need to distort my name? What kind of self-respecting humble professional does that? I dont care if you use your name or you dont. It is your choice and I respect it. The only issue I have with that is when you start insulting people. Doing that and hiding behind a pseudonym, I think is immature. To me it just sounds like the little boy 3end ras addarb, shouting insults at someone from around the corner and then mingling with the crowd or even running home fearing to be identified. It would have been a different story had I remained anonymous. And distorting my name means that if, for whatever reason, you cant use your name then nobody else should i.e. la3eb oula enbeyekhha. It is just immature whichever way you look at it.
You are talking about mixing logic and emotions yet the last half of your comment is flush with emotions and honestly you could have done without it. You are subdividing people into different types and kinds, my kind and your kind, the one who side with me and the ones who dont ; the hungry and the full. What kind of pointless crap was that all about? And what is wrong with being hungry anyway? Yes I did go to sleep hungry many times, and now I dont. That is exactly how I know what it feels like for the millions of children that are hungry in Morocco and outside Morocco, whereas you see them as a different kind of people Lastly, dont get cough being labeled as he who was hungry and now is full and no, I dont know what that nonsense means . And by the way I am (alhamdou allah) doing much better than I could have ever dreamed of. So I have absolutely no reason to draw any sympathy from the crowd or to hold any grudge against my country.
You said forget about me and about what I think about you.This whole thing was never about you to begin with. Before I posted this article I never knew you even existed. So how did it turned out to be about you? Why do you even feel the need to think anything about me in the first place? Why dont you stick to what I said and not to who I am regardless of whether I put my name and my title or I dont. So get over it! Let go! Please!!!
Dude! What ever happened to HNIPZ ?
zazette : Dr Sabour,
Please keep writing and ignore people like him. You know it is clear you both do not belong to the same caliber. You have nothing to hide. He has to hide. I hope he keeps hiding. If I were you Dr sabour I would not dignify his comments by a response.
Take care.
Zazette
zazette : and btw the only person I feel sorry for is not Dr Sabour but you Cervantes. How old are you? Your comments showed a hateful , rude and childish person. It is not his degree that made Dr Sabour the man he is. It is his upbringing and his personality + his training and experiences. Btw I am sure you do not hold a PHd nor an MD. I think you are at best a tech in some pharma or biotech compagny. If you were a respected MD or PI or any respected professional you would know how to address people. that is one thing, second you would not hide and insult others. Bec with degrees like MD and PHD you spend several years interacting with respected and highly professional people who would teach you how to behave. You have not learned anything and you behave worse glessa del hamam, at least she does not hide to kick people's behind. If I were you I would apologize to everyone on this forum and especially Dr Sabour.
Zazette
zazette : Just a little correction. I do respect people from all backgrounds regardless of what they do in life or their degrees as long as they do not harm others. My comments was just to clarify that what Cervantes brag about (a head of group or an MD) is very unlikely given the way he dealt with this article.
Cervantes : Dr. Sabour,
Hnipez got out of control and I had to show him the door. The last time I checked, he was selling fish tacos at the Santa Rosarito Beach down in Baja. Cool dude, but just always MBOUWAQ or MHASHESH as we say. I will tell him that you asked about him. Maybe I will give him your information and he can come and spread at your pad for a while. You will have fun. He will change the way you look at life-thats for sure!
Wafin a Hnipez?!!
DrSabour : Mr Cervantes, I am glad you came to your senses and decided to end this conversation with a conciliatory tone. I truly appreciate that. It goes to show that we do know how to move forward and do better, we just need to try little harder.It 'll take time but we'll get there one bit at a time. As the Chinese say: A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Special salutations to Zazette, Karim and all of you who participated in this conversation.
Cervantes : Dr. Sabour,
I never lost my senses to start with nor did I ever end the conversation. Dont think for a moment that you are off the hook Dr. Sabour. You still have not stepped up to the plate and finished what you have started. I asked you to present us with some suggestions and perhaps some proposed solutions to all the complaining and whining you did in your article and so far, I have not seen any.
Quite frankly, what you called my conciliatory tone did not move anything forward; all it might have done is make you feel a bit better and made me feel less guilty about hurting some overly sensitive person. If you call that an accomplishment then, we have made some great tiny little baby steps towards nothing.
DrSabour : I am sorry to disappoint you Mr. Cervantes, i don't have any answer to the problem, nor can I come up with suggestions to solve the problem. I am still trying to understand what the problem is, although some of it is already clear. Because I think a good chunk of Morocco's ailments are, for the most part caused by us the Moroccans. What happened in this forum actually happens in every walk of the Moroccan society. Have you ever watched any of the televised Moroccan parliamentary sessions? I don't know how it is now, but the ones I remember were plainly put, disgraceful. So to go back to your parallel, if a sick patient comes to you, you don't reach for your prescription pad first, you try to figure out what is wrong with the patient first and constitute a diagnosis before you start treating. And then based on what you have learned from that patient's specific condition you go on to figure out ways to prevent the same thing from happening again. Kappish?
And please refrain from characterizing me. I am not overly sensitive nor am I whining and complaining. You simply just don't know me.So let's put this bickering behind us. Thank you.
ahmed in la : marouane39,
I should just shut up and be complacent like you, enjoying the advantages which you gained on the backs of others. Who is hypocrite, me who had said the truth or you, who knowingly, comes to BLAD NNAS, finds it ready and enjoys the fruits! Have you suffered what early Americans endured to build their country? Have you laid one stone in its freeways? Have you added one brick to its buildings? Of course not! You probably enjoy you label jeans, your Starbucks, your nice watch and drive your nice car jumping over Hip Hop music and counting the freebies you were handed from the moment Royal Air o bird coughed you up in New York.
newguy :
Im not disillusioned with any place. Im sympathetic to your likes.
What I should have stressed the most is a need of Moroccans to acquire some substance! Yes I had acquired some intellect, yes I had acquired some wisdom and yes Im a different person than the skinny 19 year old feeding on dorm food in Suisi. But the difference between you and me, is that I had wised up, chose humanity over self, found a righteous path and advocated compassion, morals and an idealist philosophy. What you have acquired, are mere tools to express your miserable soul, one which succeeded in mastering a vehicle , in the form of your relative English skills but lacked in intelligent material to deliver. You are kind of a fancy Mercedes rolling down the road with no passengers! Or like a rolling circus; fanfare and all, but once you get close enough, you discover the ugly reality of the clowns face. If you were bright enough, as your pretentions tried to portray, you should have not ceased on an others personal life and empty gossip. You should have addressed the subject at hand with some constructive criticism, new solutions, positive suggestion, etc
As far as your misinformed gossip, I do have a younger wife, I do have a younger child, I was handed racist rulings, $1400 in support, half of my retirement, 2 vacant lands, and the loss of my 13 year-old daughter by Jewish judges of L.A. and the loss of my faith in your masters and their twisted justice. You brought up the issue and Im clarifying it to you so you could get your gossip straight. Now that you enjoyed mocking my misfortunes, think about your accomplishments as a Moroccan, as a civic American or as a member of this human race. If you fail to cite any accomplishments, put your tail between your legs, put your head down and come, submissively, lick my wounds and ask for a pardon. That's all you would be good for.
And you, hypocritically, audaciously, arrogantly and with enough nerve, stated to SSI TBEYB thank you so much for putting this clown in his place, (speaking of L3AYEL DIANNA) and i urge you not to respond to him/her anymore. His/her behavior and interaction goes to demonstrate what you've tackled in your article as if it was a supporting "document" to your observations.
Did you forget what you had said to me, you s#@%?
Did you write to address SSI TBEYB or did you write to bash me and my family?
OUNZIDEK A HADAK GALLEK JDID, NTA MACHI RAJEL. KOUN KENTI RAJEL, MATCHMETCH FKHOUK MEGHRIBI; BARAKA LKLI DAROUNI MIRIKAN OU SHMAYET DIAL HADDOK (Js), DEHKA OU DDAWLIA KOULSHI. OU ZAYDOUN, MRATI SGHIRA OULA KBIRA BEZZAF 3LIK BASH DREKHA. KOUN KENTI RAJEL, KOUN RAK HTARIMTI SYADEK 3LA DAK RREJLA LLI BA9A FLEMGHARBA. WALAKIN, MNIN NTA MAZAL KATEMSHI DDIR DFAREK FESSALOUN, OU KATCHKI 3LA MAMAK LLI label DIAL SLIP DERREK FNEYYARTEK, GHADI N3EDREK OU NGOUL LLAY STER!
ZLE9 3LIA RANA NDERREK!
SSI TBEYB,
Your assumption about my feeling toward social injustice or lack of compassion toward the environment is unfair since the mere mention of them denotes my concern and preoccupation. How do you expect I became aware of such issues as nuclear waste landfills, abuse of genetic science, the poisoning and destruction of the environment, proliferation of arms, the militarization of space, the militarization of marine life, the extensive use of economic pressure tactics, the manipulation of world markets, the squashing of genuine democracy, the misinformation, the propaganda, the military aggressions and thousands of other subjects which are contributing to misery of human beings and God s creatures. My address of such issues is a manifestation of my dissatisfaction with lack of initiative among individuals who should have had the human duty to address them. We will find, for example, Moroccans who had reached scientific, technological and educational heights, still addressing such issues as flaws of Moroccan society, as if they had no use of their intellect or advancement other than dwelling in the bottoms of human thinking. Moroccans who should have initiated social and scientific studies to analyze and study the Moroccan society, find ways to alleviate social, material and medical pains, suggest ways to make the best use of technology, science and education, improve the quality of life of Moroccans, to bridge the gap between the havs and the not havs, to sing aloud, WATTA GOULLO, WA GOULLO AKHOUNA FELLAH, MAT LFA9IR YA HBABI WOUTTAHED MAMCHA M3AH, to remind who is who, that the situation in Morocco is like and the duty of people at the helm to guide the destiny of the passengers. To remind of the day of judgment when each soul will be questioned on its actions and for the individuals need to do their share to alleviate human suffering. Many, myself included, are preoccupied with amassing material things, money, possession and perishables, yet, our conscience does seem to hurt the least. Having invoked the subject should have earned some recognition and should have afforded me some accord among your audience, but, unfortunately, few saw things my way, but than, it would not surprise me a bit, we are Moroccans after all and we thrive on negativity like parasites do on a carcass.
You will continue citing the negative aspects of the Moroccan society, on and on and on and on for eternity, yet you fail to recognize the fact that the parasites will turn on each other once the carcass is consumed. Compare us to the parasites, except that we have turned on each other while the carcass remains intact! Among matters whish you would have to cure in the Moroccan society, is the parasite behavior. Start by correcting that and I promise that the rest will follow.
And in regards to your wishes, I assure you that if your heart is in the right place and your convictions are sound, you shall not fail. When I, semi-humorously, mentioned the mosque, the farmers market and my residence being on the same side of the street, it might have given the wise an idea on my humble beginning and my like ending, few should have picked on that but your minds were elsewhere.
I commend you on your determination and success, we were all believers, beneficiaries and contributors to NNAS BENNAS OU NNAS BELLAH, unlike the French proverb, Chaque un pour soit et Dieu pour tous!
her_ca :
To answer your question, I never cared for what America stood for, except for the fact that it served as a n economical refuge to many. You would really be a fool if you thought that I was going to linger in morocco so I could perish in deprivation and you would be a crazier fool to think that my existence rely on my material needs alone. You could conclude that once the material means are met, the spiritual ones follow.
And proudly, I gave to charity when I was 10 and I will give to charity when Im a hundred; why would I change. And for the 3 of you combined, I thank my maker that the more I live, the more I learn, and the richer my conscience gets. I have not disappointed myself.
Now Ms. F9IHA BLA KHBAR SIDNA MOHAMMED,
You were the best nation ever raised up for mankind,
you enjoin which is righteous and speak against evil.
Is not about the narrow vision you have. It is rather about the human nature and its qualities as enhanced, activated and engaged by a higher existence, one which you could compare to the momentary achievement of barbarian tribes, made civilized by Islamic teachings.
Your, so-called, muslim Umah, has only been around for 1400 years, my, so-called, human brothers and sisters, have been around for 140,000 years, one hundred time your Umah. So when I advocate compassion, worldly love, peace, harmony, coexistence, fairness, justice, equality and other virtuous, I reiterate and echo messages which persisted as long as we existed.
When I made reference to this HADITH, I was merely emphasizing the teachings which we relied on to make sound judgments, vis--vis, our inter-relations with our surrounding. Your Umah is composed of human being who, geographically stretched the span of half of the earths circumference and which accounts for 1 billion people. Each individual and group will manifest his, her or its nature the way they intend and there is no guarantee that any will function to your desire or liking. Please do not fool your own self in believing that this Umah of yours, will raise up on day and will march on others, swallowing ideologies, nations and civilizations in its way. If the maker intended for your Umah to sub for all the rest, Greatest he, (AZZA WA JALL), would have made such. Your best friend and your worst enemy are within you, start from yourself and view you, as an integral part of this universe, do what is right and dont what is wrong and stop ailing yourself with the preoccupation of the world. If you do not having an understanding of the universes basic governing laws, you would do each of us an injustice.
I never denied that we are our own enemy and that change in Morocco will be from within rather than due to external stimulus. We should cut down on the talk and admit the fact that we are subject to the present condition of the rest of the human race which faith we do not escape, from Albania to Zimbabwe.
KHAH DEHNIPPEZ; HADAK KHANA 9ALLEK JDID, DI KAY9I BSALA, MASHI NFESSI NYEMMAH L3AY.
Cervantes : A Khay hmidou dyalna de LA,
Mat sedda3shi rasek m3a hadou a sahbi. Ra 3oumroum may fehmouk.
As you mentioned earlier, negativity will provoke negativity and the rest you already know.
Heta tbib mtarnen a sahbi, ana kan qoulou gibna el houloul we woha baqi lasaq fel mashakil. Qalek a sidi khesso ye3raf diagnosis, we hnaya menesbah we hnaya kanqouloulou rahnaya 3arfin el mashakil li 3andna fel blad. Hadi sinin wehna 3arfin diagnosis --Khesna shi wahid yebda bel 9tirahat deyal el houloul. Khesna nbedlou disc. Mousiba m3a hadou a sahib. Bnadem fhal samma . Llah yrzaqna sbar!!
Wida ma3andekshi el houloul ou ma3andek mat fidna bih, wa KOUWEN we STER RASEK bhal a nass!!! Ou matjbedsh el 3ib 3la blad jdoudek ou nass dyala!!BARAKA MNE FHAMAT 3LA WALOU!!
A Khay Ahmed, thala frasek ou mat dihashi 3la hadou. Ana weyak khesna nguelsou shi nhar ou nkahkhou 3lioum. Had shi li kayslah loum.
A Khai a Khai wa 3adelna shi wahed
Wafin a 9ourtaysha
Wafin ntina taysha
A khai a khai 3assarna shi letchina!!
DrSabour : Si Cervantes! What have you done with the mouse? It looks like you must have not disposed of it properly! Just joking!! ;)
Si Ahmad in LA, Marhba b rjou3ek. I hope you are well. I really thought you were joking when you said you disliked your ideological foes.
Thank you for your insightful comments. You make some good points. However, reading your comments I couldnt help but to have this bit of unsettling feeling. I couldnt make out if you were angry, resentful or just disenchanted. In comments about this topic and other topics I came across on wafin.com your language can be quite strong. The reason I am bringing this up because I was pleasantly surprised by what you said: So when I advocate compassion, worldly love, peace, harmony, coexistence, fairness, justice, equality and other virtuous, I reiterate and echo messages which persisted as long as we existed. I just wonder why is your preaching of these virtuous values doesnt get reflected in your comments on Wafin.com. Am I missing something?
The next thing is that I never assumed that you lack compassion for social injustice and the environmental issues. I do respect and share your views in that regard. What I meant is that if I were made to pick one cause for social justice, I would pick a cause that fights for social justice in Morocco before I would worry about the victims of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. There are big international organizations out there that worry about that, but there are none or may be a few that worry about the hungry Moroccan children. None that worry about the state of health care and education in Morocco etc That is why I think it is our duty to bring these issues to light, discuss them and find ways to deal with them. You said: We will find, for example, Moroccans who had reached scientific, technological and educational heights, still addressing such issues as flaws of Moroccan society, as if they had no use of their intellect or advancement other than dwelling in the bottoms of human thinking. I dont quiet get this passage. Do you mean that we shouldnt worry about the flaws of the Moroccan Society? We should just let it be. You started your last comment by blaming someone for being complacent. I see some kind of a disconnect here. The flaws of the Moroccan society are affecting millions of people in millions of different ways. The flaws of the Moroccan society cant be ignored.
You say: It is rather about the human nature and its qualities as enhanced, activated and engaged by a higher existence, one which you could compare to the momentary achievement of barbarian tribes, made civilized by Islamic teachings. I would love for you to point to me this barbarian tribe that was made civilized but Islamic teaching, name just one. The worst record of human rights violations are among Muslim countries. I dont need to tell you about the barbarian tribes that were made civilized by Islamic teaching that harbor the worst forms of human exploitation.
That being said, I am sorry to say that I couldnt wrap my brains around some of the other statements. Most likely because they are just beyond what my IQ can assimilate, but I do agree with you about us being our own enemies. And I would love to get your take on the universes basic governing laws, because that too is beyond my intellectual abilities. Though I did like the metaphor about the parasite and the carcass. I found it smart and amusing.
Lastly, the idea that the flaws of the Moroccan society stem from our own behavior had floated in this discussion even from early on. The question then is how did we get there? Who made us the way we are? Is it our government? Is it the politics of dkhoul sou9 rassek oula nharssou leek? Is it the era of assebbat ou lhrawa? Why are we the way we are?
I can't wait to see what the discussion is going to be like on my next topic.
Be well my friends.
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